Thursday, June 07, 2007

The definition of greatness

I had a conversation with a guy on monday that is certain that Lebron James is now the greatest player in the NBA and one of the best 5 of all time. My friend (who is a Spurs fan) strongly objected that he is even the greatest in the game now. Certainly Lebron's performance in the last four games of the conference finals was amazing - but he still seems to have some lapses that seem to keep him from being the best. He's only 22, but it made me wonder how we define true greatness in sports. I really think Lebron has to lead the Cavs to the NBA title in order to assert himself as the greatest in the league. He's certainly one of the best, but being the best in the NBA is doing what Bird, Magic, and Jordan did - time and time again when it counted most. Each sport seems to define itself differently. In 2005 Vince Young had a great season, but his Rose Bowl performance was unquestionably the greatest performance ever in a college football game. I think from that game on that stage it is legit to call him great and one of the greatest of all time. I think some of Joe Montana's, Tom Brady's, ect Super Bowl performances is substantial evidence to declare them as all-time greats. Because the season is shorter and individual games/performances are more crucial (there are no "series"), single game performances in football can declare someone as great. While in Basketball, it cannot be affirmed from one game or even one series. I think to be declared great, there must be the unspoken statistic of consistency and deliverance when it counts. While Karl Malone was a good player, no one is prepared to call him one of the greats of all time - no consistent greatness when it mattered. Baseball seems to be even more difficult, we have seen numerous "fluke" seasons over the years where someone seemed to be great and then followed the next season in the doghouse. Remember Brady Anderson?? Sure you don't, he had one year as the best slugger in the league -no one calls him great or has even thought of nominating him for the Hall of Fame. The varied difficulties of acceptance each sports Hall of Fame speak volumes for how we should think of greatness in each sport. In Baseball, how many "rookie of the years" end up as a joke. I remember refusing to trade my Walt Weiss baseball card after the 1988 season - sure he was on his way...now it's worth 15 cents. Golf may be even more difficult. Everyone was raving about Phil this time last year, 2 majors in a row - but after Winged Foot, the jokes kept coming.

So how do we know when we have seen greatness? You just know. You see something, you have to call somebody, you never forget where you were when you saw it, you have conversations with friends that don't even have words - all it takes is "did you see"...."yeah I saw"....There is nothing like seeing greatness unfold before you, especially in person. Watching something you know will be show again and again - highlights forever. I'll watch the NBA finals, not b/c i love the NBA or the teams involved - but b/c i don't want to miss out on possible greatness. I don't want to miss a star become great. He's not quite there yet - but there are 7 games left.

7 Comments:

At 12:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had that same Walt Weiss card. It was Upper Deck I believe. At the time it was worth a dollar because he was rookie of the year. I too refused to trade it because of the potential value. Now it's in a shoebox somewhere in my parents' house collecting dust and dropping in value.

Let it also be noted I had the Griffey Jr. Upper Deck rookie card that was worth over $100 in the early '90s. I held on thinking this was the next home run king. Now I doubt I could get $20 for it.

 
At 4:38 PM, Blogger Brian said...

I remember my brother keeping all his Jerome Walton baseball cards in a nice plastic sleeve. Nice call.

And I always wanted Gray's Junior Card.

 
At 11:01 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I cried when someone tricked me into trading my Donruss Greg Jefferies rookie card. I got really duked, but it's ok now. Is even still alive?

- Ben

 
At 11:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

some thoughts:
i understand the logic in the differences between football and basketball, but i don't see how "vince young had a great season and then one of the greatest performances ever" is any different than what lebron did in Game 5. that was quite possibly one of the 3 greatest playoff performances ever, in any sport.

we need to stop trying to place lebron in the basketball pantheon right now. unless things change greatly, he'll never be able to do what bird, magic, and jordan did because his team SUCKS. how many times did the spurs have 4, yes 4, guys on lebron last night?

oh yeah, he's TWENTY TWO. essentially, mj's rookie season would be next year for lebron. and he didn't really turn the corner til he was 25. combine that with having pippen (one of the 50 greats) and excellent role players, and it's easier to win the title. repeatedly.

i wish the sports world could sit back and enjoy what lebron did last series and let it be what it was: a GREAT individual performance that belongs in the same breath as jordan's flu game or 63, kobe's 81, etc. i just want to think about how amazing it was without having to try to figure out whether or not he's in that pantheon yet. i'd rather have that lively discussion in 8 years.

sorry that is so long

-joel

 
At 6:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Personally, while MJ is the greatest of all time and Lebron is great, if I was selecting a team, I would choose Magic to build around.

Not sure how that applies to this conversation, but just wanted to throw that one out there.

 
At 10:17 AM, Blogger Alex said...

Joel, the point being made about Vince Young was that I think one amazing game in college football can lift you to "elite" status in college football history - i don't think the same applies to the NBA, we need more from Lebron before we can say that about him in "8 years" - he can't continue to have games like 1&2 have been....

 
At 11:35 AM, Blogger Luke said...

If one game can make you elite, is Doug Flutie one of the greatest ever in college football?
Vince had a lot more than 1 great game! He had 2 great seasons (with an borderline incompetent in-game coach, I might add).

 

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